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penemuelOkay. Y'all know I'm not one for the Jonathan-love. I recently posted a pretty vitriolic rant about him on the mailing lists [I was looking for my original 'don't do x, son, unless it's to protect your secret' post, but couldn't locate it. I think that one was posted even earlier than this one, but couldn't turn it up. Maybe it was on another mailing list...], and it was echoed (quite closely) by another poster today, but here's an excerpt of a post of mine from April 16, 2003. Still holds quite true today -- this is not something that's been coming to the fore recently. It's something that's been around from the beginning of the show.
I just want to understand, do TPTB realize they're making this Jonathan out to be such a son-of-a-bitch? Do they want us to feel this way about him? (Do they want us to hate Lana? It worked!!) I don't know! This show is supposed to be about how Clark Kent becomes Superman, and the only sympathetic characters on it are the big future arch villain, and occasionally (she's had her moments, too) a cool chick who isn't even in the comics. And Clark, more, now that we're out of second season...
I'M CONFUSED!!!
In this post, I'm not sure which episode in specific I was discussing, and can't find the message I was responding to. I do notice, however, that my attitude has NOT changed at all...
---Cue old post---
I think that the real issue is, whether or not Jonathan was right *in that scene*, he has been biased against Lex FROM THE START. Biased, prejudiced, and one f*ck of a hypocrite. Yes, the first time he met Lex, Lex had hit his son with a car and Jonathan has every reason to be upset *about that*, BUT, the instant he learns Lex is a Luthor, he's against him. He doesn't bother finding out whether there was a reason for the accident, he doesn't show any sign of *caring* that Clark had to *save* Lex's life, etc.
Jonathan Kent is a prejudiced hypocrite regarding Lex, whether Lex has earned the later attitude or not. From the start, *because he is Lionel Luthor's son*, Jonathan has been against him. Jonathan, who teaches his son 'we give people the benefit of the doubt' and 'we try to see the best in people', has NEVER even tried to do that with Lex.
Because Jonathan is upset about what he himself talked the Rosses into [and I still don't see how they were wronged unless Lionel promised some certain amount for the land, and then paid them less -- but that's where contracts and lawyers are supposed to be involved in land sales. If he promised them they'd be in charge of the plant and then went back on it, unless it was in a written contract, it was just an unethical business deal. While they can be upset about it, they should have had their own lawyers looking out for their side of the agreement. I'd very much like this clarified in the show... Especially since I see Judge and lawyer as a step up from creamed corn factory owner...], he has been taking it out on Lex since the very first time they met. Yes, Lex has done some things to earn his distrust over the span of the first two seasons, but considering how Jonathan acted towards him FROM THE START, just because he was Lionel's son, it was a losing fight from the very first move.
The only time Jonathan actually judges Lex by Lex is in Prodigal. Every other time, his preconceived view of him colours everything.
Remember, this is the same man who forgave Pete in an INSTANT despite the fact that Pete did the Kryptonite equivalent of spiking Clark's drink, AND used his knowledge of Clark's weaknesses against him [yes, I *know* they couldn't really *do* anything about it, but it's the double standard that bugs me]. How Jonathan can forgive him *that quickly* for that, but can't even forgive Lex on first meeting for being Lionel's son is beyond me.
I am not saying Lex is blameless, but I *hate* seeing Jonathan held up as some kind of paragon of virtue. It bugs the hell out of me.
I just want to understand, do TPTB realize they're making this Jonathan out to be such a son-of-a-bitch? Do they want us to feel this way about him? (Do they want us to hate Lana? It worked!!) I don't know! This show is supposed to be about how Clark Kent becomes Superman, and the only sympathetic characters on it are the big future arch villain, and occasionally (she's had her moments, too) a cool chick who isn't even in the comics. And Clark, more, now that we're out of second season...
I'M CONFUSED!!!
In this post, I'm not sure which episode in specific I was discussing, and can't find the message I was responding to. I do notice, however, that my attitude has NOT changed at all...
---Cue old post---
I think that the real issue is, whether or not Jonathan was right *in that scene*, he has been biased against Lex FROM THE START. Biased, prejudiced, and one f*ck of a hypocrite. Yes, the first time he met Lex, Lex had hit his son with a car and Jonathan has every reason to be upset *about that*, BUT, the instant he learns Lex is a Luthor, he's against him. He doesn't bother finding out whether there was a reason for the accident, he doesn't show any sign of *caring* that Clark had to *save* Lex's life, etc.
Jonathan Kent is a prejudiced hypocrite regarding Lex, whether Lex has earned the later attitude or not. From the start, *because he is Lionel Luthor's son*, Jonathan has been against him. Jonathan, who teaches his son 'we give people the benefit of the doubt' and 'we try to see the best in people', has NEVER even tried to do that with Lex.
Because Jonathan is upset about what he himself talked the Rosses into [and I still don't see how they were wronged unless Lionel promised some certain amount for the land, and then paid them less -- but that's where contracts and lawyers are supposed to be involved in land sales. If he promised them they'd be in charge of the plant and then went back on it, unless it was in a written contract, it was just an unethical business deal. While they can be upset about it, they should have had their own lawyers looking out for their side of the agreement. I'd very much like this clarified in the show... Especially since I see Judge and lawyer as a step up from creamed corn factory owner...], he has been taking it out on Lex since the very first time they met. Yes, Lex has done some things to earn his distrust over the span of the first two seasons, but considering how Jonathan acted towards him FROM THE START, just because he was Lionel's son, it was a losing fight from the very first move.
The only time Jonathan actually judges Lex by Lex is in Prodigal. Every other time, his preconceived view of him colours everything.
Remember, this is the same man who forgave Pete in an INSTANT despite the fact that Pete did the Kryptonite equivalent of spiking Clark's drink, AND used his knowledge of Clark's weaknesses against him [yes, I *know* they couldn't really *do* anything about it, but it's the double standard that bugs me]. How Jonathan can forgive him *that quickly* for that, but can't even forgive Lex on first meeting for being Lionel's son is beyond me.
I am not saying Lex is blameless, but I *hate* seeing Jonathan held up as some kind of paragon of virtue. It bugs the hell out of me.
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Bo-Jo
Date: 2004-01-29 09:41 pm (UTC)I've only been saying it for... oh, at least a year or so ;-)
Seriously, I don't get whether they're intending this or not, but he's REALLY not a nice person...
Based on Jonathan's actions, I have a hard time seeing Clark Kent becoming canon Superman. You can't grow up exposed to that kind of bigotry and not be affected.
I had posted a comment a couple of days ago, about how I could easily see him becoming the Superman of the Justice Lords from the 'A Better World' episode of Justice League. Lots of folks seem to think that growing up with this kind of attitude in your father-figure role model won't really affect him in that way, but I can't see it not having some effect.
He's not going to be the Evil Alien Overlord type, but I can very, very easily see him getting fed up with the leniencies of the justice system, deciding he knows better (since after all, he's been raised to think that it's okay for him to do things that other people shouldn't!), and taking that step over the line to 'making the world a safer place for our own good', whether we want it or not...
no subject
Date: 2004-01-29 05:49 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2004-01-29 09:54 pm (UTC)It really is funny what some characters can get away with and others can't... It wouldn't bug me so much if someone (an outside observer, not Lex, who most of it is directed at) on the show would say, 'Gee, Clark, y'know your dad's a bit of a bigot, right?' or SOMETHING!
And I also wondered about the "deal with the devil" - I just *love* [/sarcasm] how all business and money is evil in some shows. The whole thing makes no sense.
Y'know, it's the root of all evil. ;)
I really, really wish we could get some of the Ross' perspective from the adults. I'd love to know if they really think Lionel "cheated them" out of the factory, or if they think they made a bad deal, and Pete's just overheard some complaining and assumed Lionel cheated them.
I also wish someone would call Jonathan on his transferrence issue -- he's almost pathological about it...
Oh well, maybe Jor-El's already taken care of some of the problem for us, but you know if Bo-Jo does kick it because of a bad heart, no one, no one is going to say anything
badhonest about him. Hell, Lex probably won't even be allowed to attend the funeral -- there'll be something important for him to do in Metropolis, or he'll be trying to recover from whatever Dr. Garner does to him. [EEEK!!!]